There’s an emerging consensus among many leading international relations scholars that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine marked the official end of the post-Cold War era and the beginning of, well… actually… no one’s actually sure what’s coming next but whatever it is China is definitely going to play a central role.

China’s framing of this emerging alternative international order is happening right now in Africa and the Middle East, according to a new book by Dawn Murphy, an associate professor at the U.S. Air War College. She joins Eric & Cobus from Alabama to discuss why these two regions, in particular, are so important to China’s long-term geopolitical agenda.